Milk Jug Racing - Cannonsburg

Again if you didn't make it to this race, you missed a fun time. Instead of an individual tt we started as a group, making the push to the first singletrack quite a challenge (my first mass start mtb event since the Iceman...which was 6 years after my last one...).

Let's just say that Cannonsburg has changed radically since I last raced there in 2000. I wouldn't doubt that only about a half mile of course is re-used in the new design. Unfortunately for me, the new course is incredibly twisty through trees, so I did my part in trying to hit a few.

I ended up 6th in the A-race...not bad considering who all was in the field. Nate Versilus crushed everyone on a singlespeed. Mike Seaman and Rick Plite remained slightly out of reach for me over the 16 mile race. Too bad that was the last race of the series. For a combined total entry fee of $30 ($15 per race), I walked away with $20 to the Daily Grill, a huge bottle of Hammer Gel, two pair of sweet DeFeet socks, and a bag full of Clif bars and Hammer gel.

Needless to say it was a fun race; I'm looking forward to racing at Hanson Hills on Sunday!

Man I can't wait for cyclocross...

jb

Milk Jug Racing

Wow, talk about my kind of race. Laid back, $15, TONS of prizes, and a fun atmosphere. Too bad I missed the first one.

Tonight Big Rich and I drove out to Ionia to race in the Wednesday night milk jug race. We met Napper, Seaman, and pretty much the rest of the Alma biking crew for a fun but slippy mtb time trial. On our pre-ride, which unfortunately was only 3 miles of the 8 mile loop, the rocks were quite slippery and threatened to put your face in the dirt at any moment. Since this was my first ever ride of the course there were surprises around every corner. I started fourth behind Seaman and little Chris. In the end I took 3rd in the A-group, losing to little Chris by only 7 seconds.

Sorry about the no-blogging lately...too busy riding I guess.

See you at Kensington and Frankenmuth.

jb

Dangerous Dave and Brutal Bob...

http://www.premierecycling.net/game.html

My best is 653.3 m

Have fun waiting until warmer weather and RACING!

Kristie's birthday

Today is Kristie's birthday! Too bad I have to teach and she has conferences...what a great way to celebrate...at least Kona has a free day today.

(Happy birthday)

jb

Finally...outside

Here are a few pics of my first race back in 2006 after a FIVE year layoff from the sport...too bad about that bike. It was an absolute rocket even though it only had Daytona components...

Even so, it is still hanging in my basement reminding me of its original owner and what he taught me about riding/racing/life. Lots has changed since I was a junior in the Michigan circuit. One thing that hasn't is the Spring Training Series...

So I'm a bit of an indoor training type of guy if given the option of training outside in sub-32 degree weather versus a nice, controlled environment. This isn't because I don't like being outside (believe me, I would MUCH rather ride outside...) but it is because my toes happen to freeze very easily when the weather and wind turn up.

This year I did manage to buy some P.I. typhoon booties which have worked very well, but not well enough for me to go spend hours on the roads in them. Just well enough to take the bite out of an hour or hour and a half of trainer break time. Sometimes that is just enough to break up the monotony of it all.

Anyway, last week's weather couldn't have come at a better time in my spring training since it was a large volume week for me. I managed to get long rides outside for 4 days despite teaching at Delta. Friday's ride was the best...almost 3 hours after a looooooong school day.

I love the feeling of anticipation to find out who has been putting in the time for the April/May/June races now. Then again I love that feeling before the first 'cx race even better, but at that time you have a pretty good idea based on road and mtb form.

We have a new addition to the bike family; I'll make a post shortly with pics when it comes in! Good thing I have a bike room...

jb

p.s. Kristie's birthday is on Thursday so I can't say what Kona got her for that, but it is SWEET!

Ithaca GP

Check it out...new sponsors!

www.IthacaGP.blogspot.com

Grand Tours as viewed from a mtb'er

On my way back from getting blasted around Hanson Hills on Saturday with Randy and Sally Vernon we started discussing the grand tours. Randy, a mountain biker, mentioned that watching the Tour de France has become just like watching professional wrestling.

Think about the last 9 tours. Lance x 7, followed by the first real open tour in 7 years (Phloyd is either innocent or an absolulte idiot), followed by another Johan B. team taking control. A bit repetitive indeed. Don't get me wrong, I still (personally) enjoy watching all of the tours, but 60 minutes through a Belgian park is quite a bit more entertaining.

TdF meets WWF Smackdown! Interesting point from a mtb'er...

Training and E-bay...

First, here is a shameless plug for a new e-bay auction I'm listing. Buy it and I'll give you a high five and a hammer gel next time I see you.



Second, now that I am back to normal health I have been resuming training with my new training partner. Unfortunately when the weather gets nice she'll have to stay home, as I think she would be a bit of a drag after more than 5 miles of running behind me...

Despite what the picture would lead you to believe, I've actually lost weight since 'cx...I look like a tubbo here. Probably should lay off ice cream sometime soon anyway...

Enjoy the snow while we have it!

jb

Normalized

After my last post and my quick but hefty bout with the flu, I managed to come down with pneumonia for (what seems like) the 10th time in my short life of 25 years. I can almost count on the fact that I'll get it every other year. I love looking forward to that...

Anyway, after a crazy number of snow days I managed to get healthy but obviously my training was sidlined for a while. Good thing I don't give a rats rear about any races before the 'cx season. Don't get me wrong, road racing is entertaining but 'cx is what's fun. As long as racing is still fun I don't foresee taking another 5 year break. From what I remember about why I stopped racing as an 18 year-old, one of the primary reasons was because I raced almost all of the spring training series races through the end of the 'cx season with 2 peaks. Wow. Talk about burned out...

Granted I'm a different person now from when I was 18. My mind can probably handle that and still want to get on the bike come the following February-ish. But why? Let's face it, unless you're one of the 2 people I know that are either currently a pro or an aspiring pro, you and I aren't going pro any time soon. Therefore, why not focus your season entirely on the part that you care about (and are possibly good at)?

Enough of my rant for today. Hope you have a good weekend and are on the bike or skis with all of this snow!

jb

p.s. be sure to check out the Ithaca GP, as we got a new sponsor!

The Kone

So despite all the time off I still managed to get whatever bug everyone else has. So much for 2 good weeks of training.

Instead I figured it would be a good idea to get the 6+ inches of snow off of our driveway. Too bad it is going to be in the middle 30's on Tuesday so we'll (again) lose all of this snow.

After recently watching the cyclocross movie, Transition, I noticed a familiar face in the crowd...next time you're watching it take a look around 22-ish minutes (Deleware and Phili races) for TGM'er JEFF WEINERT! In Deleware he scored a front spot on the start line and pokes his head in and out of that coverage. In Phili he has a 2nd row start and gets a nice close up while riding with Trebon (or Wicks...somebody in orange).

jb

Long time

Sorry it has been so long...lots has happened since December 3rd and my last post. Here's the quick catch up:

1) Kristie's JV basketball team rocks
2) After a month off of the bike I'm back on again
3) Today we had a snow day
4) I've been working a ton on the ithaca cx race
5) I teach at Delta now in addition to my normal teaching schedule...

Lastly, with the Ithaca event, I've been working a ton on getting things set in order to put on an even better event this year. When you get a chance, check out the website, http://www.IthacaGP.blogspot.com for up to date information. We're currently seeking some sponsorship help, so if you're interested or know anyone who is interested, call or e-mail.

That is going to do it for now...off to teach again!

jb

Waterford

So to start the fun Kristie and I drove down with Kona. It didn't take as long as I expected, which was a nice change. I had tons of time on my hands to check out the sweet heated GIANT tent that Matt Baroli has been setting up at all the cx races. Kerosene heater and all...it was a great place to sit on the trainer and not get cold.

On my first warm-up lap on the course I was amazed at how much I actually liked the course. Now granted it is Waterford and there's only so much you can do, but I really thought Joe and the crew did a great job with what they had to work with. You'll always have the ridiculously bumpy infield and that horrible section after the long downhill by the guard rail, but considering all the elements at play I was pretty happy with how it all turned out.

At the starting line we got a call up based on the series points, which was great because I got to pick my spot right in the middle. Granted at this time there wasn't only one nice smooth path down the finish straight; rather there were 200 lines all crossing each other. I knew there were a few things I would need to do in order to be in contention after the first lap. The start is obviously crucial in any race. For this course, I wanted to be first on the first lap in four spots. The first left turn on grass, the first barrier set, the first tricky off-camber turn down the gully, and the first into the second set of barriers.

I took it out as hard as I could to make sure I wouldn't get into trouble with my first three goals, which in this case came fast and furious. After I had a good gap on the first run-up I put the hammer down in the only places I could, which were the straight sections of the course. Nobody was gaining huge time in the corners, but you could definitly lose huge time if you made a mistake. So I concentrated on working my rear off through all the power sections while recovering and taking it easy through the turns.

After the first lap I knew that if I let anybody catch me I was going to hear about it from Jeff. See, previously at the first Vet's park of this year, Cory and I took it out HARD on the first lap. I had a very small gap of around 5 seconds on him going into the finish line on the first lap and I figured I wasn't going to be able to hold onto that. I eased just a bit and let Cory catch on, only to be dragged around for the remainder of that race. I took 2nd to Cory that day and got a (good) earful from Jeff about that...so I wasn't going to let it happen again without a fight.

After I had my gap I just tried to control things as much as is possible in a 'cross race. This year there seem to be a lot of guys close together in the B-field. For one, Cory, who showed he has the power of somebody much older than him. Tony dropped me like a lead weight at Munson and can run through sand with motor legs. Patrick and Justin aren't easily out of sight and Roger has been known to throw it down as well. David also came on strong at Munson. With so many people to watch I just decided to take it into my own hands and make as many people chase as I could.

Man on my last lap all I could think about was not crashing and not breaking anything on my bike. Coming across the finish line I probably had the dumbest smile on my face but I didn't really care. Seeing Gordon at every finish line this year and the support he's thrown out has been great. It was a great feeling giving him a high five and then seeing Kristie, Shannon, and my inlaws (Mike and Karen). Mike even brough Tink (toy poodle) who was wrapped up in his coat to keep warm. Not what you expect to see at a cross race! (apparently Kona got a bit tired from the cold and had to go sleep in the grand prix...)

Next year will bring a whole new level of pain while racing for 60 minutes. As Jeff said, it's only a matter of time until the "new guard" starts to overtake the "old guard." Joel, Eric, Matt, and Andy all slugged it out this year with the big dogs. I guess I'll have to live up to the big boy knickers and step it up one more notch. I've never been more excited to step to the next level.

For now I'll be skate skiiing with Kristie and watching her coach the JV Alma girls bb team. I'm looking forward to a bit of time away from training. I hear ice cream and oreos calling in the distance.

Next year isn't far off and we're already planning for a BIGGER and BETTER Ithaca GP of 'cross for 2008! Stay tuned for updates...

Also I found all my old pics from when I used to race. I'll be occasionally posting up a few that I got scanned into my computer.

Thanks to Kristie, Matt Baroli (and Lisa), Jeff, Tom K, Matt Janko, and the team for a great season. Also thanks to all that came out to support our 'cx race. Good luck to all those heading out to Kansas. I believe the last time nat's was there they had a freak snow storm and sub-freezing weather. Again?

jb

State Championship Predictions

If I were a betting man I'd bet that one of these four racers will be the Michigan State Cyclocross Champion! (Don't worry, the link is G-rated...but quite, quite stuipd...)

Just doing my part to make the internet more fun...

jb

Munson cyclocross

(photo courtesy of Jeff Zimmerman)

So why not? Well I'm sure there were a few objections to the Big Boy knickers today. I guess I don't really care about those nay sayers. They were warm, matched the kit pretty well, and were obviously attention-getting.



Anyway, back to racing. From the gun Cory jumped off the front. I figured we would be able to bring him back and after a lap we were all back together. Tony tried a brief jump heading south on the gravel and got a small gap. By this time Cory had a mechanical issue and it was down to a small group. (Please excuse any mis-writing here...it was cold and my memory seems to have a few gaps here and there) At one point with about 4 to go Tony jumped again on the gravel and was able to maintain a small gap over me for the remainder of that lap. For the next 2 laps that gap continued to grow and I was getting caught by David Morrissey.



David and I rode together for about a lap and a half. I figured I wasn't going to bring Tony in by myself and that wind was relentless today. I welcomed the draft. With the bell lap Tony was gone and I wasn't about to let David have third in a sprint. I attacked him in the sand (he ran, I rode) and maintained a small gap to the finish.



I have to be happy with 2nd today since I am still feeling the effects of the Iceman-crampeth race last Saturday. With two great weeks coming up here before the state championships I'll be able to recover and focus on what needs to happen to take down the state championship. Hopefully between Jeff and Joe we'll have a course BETTER THAN LAST YEAR with more laps and less back and forth on bumpy stupid grass.



The Big Boy is out.

Iceman

This year marked my 4th Iceman attempt, but the last time I raced was in 2000. Lots has changed from what I remember. Maybe part of it was racing in the 19-24 category. I guess most of it was because of the expert-nature of the 19-24 category. That was the fastest and most sketchy start of any race I've ever been in. I figured things would sort out (and slow down...) after the first 2-3 miles. Not quite. This reminded me of the worst cat 4 race I've ever been in. The speed wasn't bad, it was the sand that was killer. And the frosty leaves. And the fact that there were 20 guys plus myself that wanted to be in first going into the singletrack. Combine 2-wheel slides, frosty leaves, sand, a crazy fast start and you have yourself one FUN race!

I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. To start out the morning I managed to screw up my normal pre-Iceman food of pancakes. I figured the next best thing would be oatmeal. I messed that up too. How can you mess that up? Trust me you can. I managed to leave on time but with an uneasy feeling of things not quite going right for my return to the MAN of ICE race.

I loaded up the truck and headed out to Kalkaska to be greeted with the coldest Iceman I've ever raced. Come to think of it, there was even crusty snow (old) on the first single track. That marks the first time I've raced the Iceman with snow!

In the parking lot I unloaded the F3000 (sorry Giant, some old classics just don't go out of style...but their forks break). After my first spin to warm up I found that my front tire was punctured with a slow leak. A smooth change of the tube got me back into business, but with less than the perfect warmup. I managed to line up in the 2nd row a full 15 minutes prior to my 9:30 start time.

The gun went off and it was on. Full speed onto the first narrowing; we had a really nice group rolling right along. Then we hit the first singletrack section and things splintered.

The next half hour or so of racing kind of blurs together, but I remember putting in a monster pull on the dirt-paved road. Two other guys were with me and we managed to close a gap of about 10 seconds on the group of 5 in front of us. In that group were the likes of Tom and brother Torrence from Colorado (Pearl Izuimi). Dangling off the back of our new group by about 30 seconds was a U of M rider in my category. By the time we hit mile 17 I think I was in 4th or 5th place in my category.

After the hills by Williamsburg road was the first sign of difficulty. I started to get those light tingles in both of my lower quads. A quick shift took care of them...but with 10 miles to go it was a sure sign that things were going to get extremely difficult.

It really hit the fan with about 7 to go (I think...). The U of M rider caught me after the "wall" downhill and I was unable to raise the pace (due to the leg crampage getting into the painful to very painful range). Since the last 7 miles of the race have the steepest of the climbs in it I prepared for the worst and dropped it back to a comfortable pace. I figured we had done a lot of damage to those behind us, and if I maintained a moderate pace while trying to spin the cramps out I could still manage a place in the money (top 7).

Well let's just say things didn't go as planned. It all really came to a head on the LAST single track section (about a mile to go) after I had been passed by (seemingly) everyone and their brother. The cramps were bad but managable until we slowed and turned into the right-hand drop into single track. When I briefly stopped pedaling to make it around a turn both legs (quads, calves, and hamstrings) simultaneously siezed, forcing me off the bike completely. Talk about the absolute worst pain I've ever experienced on a bike...

With 1 km to go the last racer in my category to finish ahead of me would pass me. I was again on my bike at this point but with every pedal stroke I could feel the pain seeping back into my muscles. Finally over the bridge and across the finish line. Ouch.

The bottom line is that I had roughly 21 miles of the best MTB racing in my life followed by the absolute worst racing (and pain) on a bike in my life. I was very happy to be finished and greeted by Kristie, my dad, Shannon, and Patrick, but I was dissappointed by my last half hour of racing. End race time was 1:55.09. For someone who starts concentrating on 45 minute 'cx efforts in JULY that doesn't seem too terribly bad, but what is bad is that I was with the group that finished in 1:49 (for 5th place), meaning that in the last 7 miles of racing I lost 7 places and 6 minutes (ended up 12th). Not exactly what I had hoped for.

With all the negative things done with, I have to say the majority of racing was fun, which is exactly why I like racing. The cramps are something I can deal with by preparing for a 2 hour effort, but let's not joke anybody by thinking that I would ever give up a season of 'cx for one Iceman. I'll definitely SIGN UP IN THE LOTTERY to get into next year's event.

Some good news: Kona got her stitches out last week so she's all better and shopping like a little shopper. Kristie started her official coaching career (AHS JV girls basketball!!!!!), which will be an exciting experience for her!

Also, mad MAD props to Jeff Weinert who returned to the Iceman after 8 years to DOMINATE the single speed class with a win (1:42.36)!!! Maybe those naysayers commenting on tms should quiet down before they awake the little giant again...

2 races left (Munson cx and the state championships...) Then it is time to RELAX and skate ski with Kristie. That is if we get any snow...

jb

Vet's Park Weekend

Finally a cool weekend to race 'cross! The course on Saturday was a clockwise beast with a very long and decisive run up. After Roger took it out fast, Cory and I pegged it until we had a gap we could play with. With two to go I hit my pedal on the long run up and Cory put it down enough to gap me. I got it within about 30 meters at various points for the remaining lap and a half but he proved to have more power that day. 2nd is never the most desirable position but I was happy my form was where it should be.

Today's course was counterclockwise with lots of similar features from Saturday's event. Our field today was 20 strong with a new guy from Ohio (name?) and a bunch of U of M racers. From the gun we took things out quickly. Roger ended up spilling on the off camber, slippery section coming back from the tennis courts. Fortunately for me he stopped sliding in time for me to squeeze by on his right. I dropped a few gears and put it down for a bit. Tony was able to hang for a bit but eventually we (Ohio and myself) were able to gap him a bit.

Ohio and I rode around for the next 5 laps testing each other at various points. He was pretty strong on the flats but I was faster in the technical (running or barriers) sections. With two to go we were neck and neck through the trees on the corner of Dexter and Maple. He lead us down the hill towards the softball fields when I noticed him having chain difficulties. I figured it would be as good a time as any to put the hurt on, so I went as hard as I could and was able to hold the gap until the finish.

That officially marks the first time in my life I've crossed the line first in a 'cross race. It was a great feeling but with two races left (plus the Iceman) I am more focused now than ever.

Next up is the Iceman!

For those about to 'cross...


jb

Vet's Park day 1 update

Quick update here...

Today was a great day to race 'cross! Shannon came out to watch us run around Vet's park for 45 minutes. The race started FAST with Roger Bowswer going to the front quickly. Right before the long run up I came to the front to set the pace. The only follower was Cory Stang, who eventually proved faster up the run than me. We had 2 minutes on 3rd place today, which is a great indication that I'm ready to race tomorrow and at the Iceman a week from today.

Another post will follow sometime after tomorrow...

See ya,
jb

October 13-14

So this weekend Matt Baroli, Jeff Weinert, and I headed down to the UCI races in Ohio. I drove down to Matt's house on Friday night so we could get an early start on Saturday morning. The ride to the Java Johnnie's UCI race Saturday went faster than I thought. Saturday would prove to be the first time I've had to wear my LS skinsuit because of the temperature. The course was twisty beyond belief, which didn't exactly suit my riding style the most.

I got a great start (3rd into the first turn) but quickly the two juniors from Papa John's put the hammer down and I slid back to the chase group. There were only one set of barriers to navigate, and they were on an uphill section meaning there would be no braking while racing into the barriers. Down and up another hill brought you into the sand volley-ball pit with a 90 degree turn in it for fun.

When I was with a group I managed to do ok through that section (not great...just ok) but I would find out watching other races that there were much more efficient ways to get through all that sand. Check one up for the "learned something" box.

At the end of the day I finished 7th out of 30 or so, which was respectable. I was hoping for a top 5 but I just didn't have it on that course with those competitors.

Sunday brought about a HUGELY different course than Saturday's course. Harbin Park is 1) Gigantic and 2) Hilly and fast. This course had a very difficult off-camber turn within 300 m of the starting line, so I pretty much knew the top 5 would be a necessity on the first lap. I applied some good advice from Saturday's event to Sunday's start, and sure enough I got the whole shot. 1st into that corner definitely helped, but I would soon fall victim to the two Papa John's juniors again.

This course was crazy fast, and even though it had some nice power sections, there were enough technical fast turns to make it not my favorite (but better than Saturday's!). At the end of the day I ended up with a group of 3 others racing for 8th place. I lost that battle in the sand on the last lap (again...sand gets me) and took 11th. 11th doesn't sound so good, but when you line up with almost 60 guys it isn't so bad.

Important thing #1 from this weekend was that I had an absolutely great time. Important thing #2 from this weekend was that I learned more from this weekend than I have all 'cross season. Knowledge is everything when it comes to 'cross. I guess fitness is important too. And bike-handling skills. Ok knowledge must be up there pretty high anyway.

See ya.

jb

Sandy Creek

Special thanks to Thomas K for capturing this great pic of the winning break!

Man. Sunday felt like I was in a sauna for 45 minutes of sweating. Aside from the heat, it was an amazing day of racing!

When I left Alma it was already warm. It's october, so why fix the air in the car? Days like this, I guess. Warming up for the race was difficult at best. With that kind of heat this late in the year my body does wierd things. I never really know how I'm going to react until about 2 minutes into an effort. Then it's either good or bad, and there's no tricking myself into thinking bad can be made into good.

Luckily for me, two minutes into my first effort I was feeling great. Great is not the right word, because I was riding 'cross in 85 degree weather, which is never really great in my mind. I'll take 50 and rainy anyday for a 'cx race. Anyway, we lined up for the start with the usual suspects minus Roger (Two Wheel) ready to take it to each other. I got a great start behind Scott from New England (in town for a wedding). He went pretty hard but I was very concerned about going at it too fast and blowing up with the heat. I let Scott chill out front for about a half a lap before we gradually caught him going into the first sand 180 degree turn.

Our lead group was relatively large after the first lap (8 strong?). Rolling through the finish line we turned out a pretty good lap. It wasn't long before our group dwindled to 3/4 with a Tree Fort racer dangling on and off the back with Cory Stang, Scott (from Mass), and myself working pretty well together. At the pavement on the bell lap I put one hard dig in and popped Cory and Tree Fort off the group, but Soctt was able to hang. I was pretty maxed at that point and was hanging on with everything I had.

I knew going into the beach run that I needed to be in front to have any chance of gapping him after the run, but I just didn't have the power to get by on the sections that were clear. Scott gave about 5 hard pedals as he jumped on the bike and had a 5 m gap pretty quickly. That's all it took to pop me off, so I rolled in for 2nd place.

Considering how fast our times were compared with other races (we beat both masters classes...which doesn't happen every day) I am pretty happy with 2nd place. It's better than 4th at Bloomer and I'm getting faster.

Next up is the two Ohio UCI races. Matt, Jeff, and I are headed down. I hear other MI'ers are going to show...Foshag, Wiz, Card, Steele, etc. Hopefully we'll be able to light it up.

See ya.

Bloomer CX

4th place today in the B-race. I'm rather dissappointed with that result for some reason, despite the fact that 4th is the best placing I've had in a 'cross race since I was 17 years old and demolishing the B's. Today I wasn't firing on all cylinders; I would attribute that to this past week's training block being the toughest of my life. Training through races can be tough mentally.

So there were only 16 of us at the start of the race today. I expect that number will increase next week at Stoney as the C race had 6,093 racers. As usual I got a good start and sat in the top 3 throughout the first 3 laps. On lap 2 or 3 I was sitting second wheel to Roger Bowser when he took a spill on the off camber turn from the tall climb by the velodrome. I managed to hold a front wheel stand for what felt like an eternity before I stumbled. Kristie and my dad (both spectating today...) said 7 people passed us right there. In addition, the eventual winner attacked and held the gap for the remainder of the race.

The following few laps saw a consistent chase group of Roger, Cory Stang, and the eventual 3rd place winner (name?). Cory had some tire pressure/traction and chain issues, Roger chased back to us and we mounted an unsuccessful chase and ended up sprinting as a strung-out group for 2nd through 4th. I guess I can't be dissappointed with 4th, considering all the elements at play today.

With focus, my training will get me where I should be. It is always tough racing when you know you shouldn't expect much. I definitely felt it a few times there today.

All the pics are from Kristie. Having a sweet cheering section helps when the legs get heavy! I was absolutely exhausted on the way home, and apparently so was Kona.

See ya at Stoney.